How to Make Facebook Marketing Work Without Paying For Ads
The average reach of an organic Facebook page post is around 5.2%. That means about one in every 19 fans sees the page’s non-promoted content (Hootsuite). And the average engagement rate in 2020 for an organic Facebook post was 0.25% 😱.
Yet most marketers STILL say Facebook is their most important social platform.
What is it that successful businesses are doing on Facebook that makes it worthwhile? How do we make it achievable for everyone?
We’re a little bit late today and you know sending out the wrong links it’s always nice when i send out the right links to our guests but we’re all here now by the way thank you for joining us today it’s going to be a great show we’ve got extra special guests who i love geeking out with today we are this is going to be all about you so you guys let us know down below your questions all about facebook we’re talking about today you know growing organically and we would love it if you were like oh my gosh i know somebody who this would be so interesting and they need to hear this well at mention them down below call them into the conversation even if they check the replay it’s going to be awesome i’m so excited i mean send them a telegram whatever you’re going to do right exactly yes and we’re actually going live on um amazon live as well so if you guys uh want to check out all of where we’re doing all of holly’s books are down below if you want to check out those and purchase those i’m sure she would appreciate those um but hey elisa since you joined us late i want to throw you under the bus and let you introduce our guest fair enough yes we’re very excited so as you may or may not know we have been doing a bi-weekly show which is all about pinterest all the time and we asked you would you like to hear a little bit more than just pinterest we love pinterest we’ll keep talking about pinterest every other week but you said yes we want to hear all the things which makes sense right we need to diversify and figure out which platforms work for best for us and then get those platforms working for us so when we decided to do this our first thought was holly homer yes so we were very happy when she said yes holly is the founder of kidsactivitiesblog.com and she also has a three and a half million member facebook page and a pinterest account with over 370 000 followers this lady knows a thing or two about making facebook work she does so yeah we’re gonna just we’re gonna pull out as much as we can give us your questions that’s right i can see it coming out now that’s true yeah so bring your questions we have we have quite a few conversation starters but this is for you well oh let’s be honest it’s also a little bit for me because i love this excuse to learn from smart people i know that’s what i’ve done my entire career that’s all i’ve done is interviewed people who are awesome and we want to give some shout outs to brian from barcelona oh my gosh mike look at my text that is monstrous that is that’s because i was doing a guy kawasaki show and he likes it big um so there you go um welcome everybody who is tuning in it is so cool that you guys are here um so we would love to get your questions we’ve got uh heather saying hi guys hi back heather so uh we’ve already got some facebook questions uh dropping in the comments but we’re gonna uh let holly talk a little bit uh and see um what she says so the first one is she’s allowed to talk she is she is okay so holly you’ve been doing this man i met you the first time when i before i even spoke at social media marketing it must have been like 2014 or 15 or something like that when you were in san diego yeah i think it was 2014 maybe the first time yeah yeah but you’ve been doing this for a while so what you know since the dinosaurs roamed the internet that’s right in fact when you had to you know you had to you had to hear that what did we we dialed up and and you said aol check cd roms yes exactly so so my first question is what are some of the challenges of marketing organically on facebook what’s the biggest challenge you think there is out there so i think the biggest challenge i would say is that we lose sight so often when we are promoting something that this is a social network and algorithms are getting better and better and better at eliminating spam and spam to an algorithm is not like you know what we think of spam spam to an algorithm is anything that doesn’t get engagement it’s just gonna like mark it off the list it doesn’t have to show it in the feed so the problem is if if you’re like doing something even at all salesy or promotionally or other leads um you’re just not gonna get any conversation going on it because this is a social network so we have to figure out how to get people talking around what we’re talking about or starting conversations continuing conversations other ways we’re just going to be lost in the feed awesome awesome so but how do you so this is my question so how do you balance because i know it’s a social network but we’ve got to make money and i know you’re making money on it you’re killing it so how do we find that balance is there like some secret sauce of being salesy but also um you know i don’t know being like what’s on the trends what all the kids doing you know is that how you is that how you do it i mean how can you walk that line i guess yeah so i i have almost gotten to the point where i throw out salesy i don’t even think it works um it people can see it a mile away uh if you’re go you’re better off trying to promote it like a catalog you know and the thing is is people don’t buy products they buy from people and they buy solutions so all you really need to do is figure out what problems you’re you’re solving and why other people would want that and have conversations around those where you’re meeting and connecting with other people on a true level it doesn’t have to be like oh we’re soul mates it’s more like hey i know that holly girl she makes me laugh or she’s just like me because or she reminds me of my sister because she’s so nuts and oh she sells the stuff like that that i need and so like then it’s not a sale anymore it’s a match because like if you know like and trust me then it and you know that i have something that’s going to solve the problem that’s not even a question you’re going to be like hey holly what is that thing you sell because i want some because i know you and i trust you and i know you’re not spammy but like i feel like what we’ve done in social media is cut out that relationship and that conversation and we’re just like hey i’m holly and hey buy this when has that ever worked has that ever worked so i know that that and i i know i had to get over this hurdle too and i know you’ve talked to people about it but i know businesses or people who are selling stuff because we all have to make a living are going but that i’m giving away my stuff for free i can’t give away my stuff for free how am i gonna what content should i do you know what i’m you know what i’m saying well and i i mean there are some areas i would assume that there is a problem with giving stuff away for free but on the other hand like i can’t tell i mean like i have everything in the world that i’ve ever taught is for free on you know like you can get i have 13 000 blog posts on my blog i have you know i don’t know 150 youtube you know videos i have thousands of hours of facebook live video so like the truth is if you wanted to know everything i want i know you could just follow me around on the internet and watch all that stuff the thing is is who has time for that like i’ve accumulated that over 15 years and so what we’ve got to stop thinking about is that you’re selling this you’re not selling this you’re selling the you’re selling this like you’re you are keeping all the like if you have an informational product you’re selling information but actually what you’re doing is you’re selling hey tone out all this information and just do this because like if you google things now like what is it like 17 million results on your average like google yeah in this world well we have a lack of clarity and very concise steps to get there you know our friend jennifer priests who we have on and we talk about pinterest a lot we’ll ask what is the price of free and i think that is such a great question you can you could spend years pouring through everything that’s available and whatever topic you want to learn about but what is the cost of that yeah yeah and like seriously like when i like take on coaching clients and stuff like that i’m not pricing that as like oh it’s gonna take me three hours to do this because that’s not what it’s valued at the value is no this is a area where i can literally shorten your journey by five years like and then i take a discount off that because i can’t charge you that much right but the truth is is if you could skip ahead and if and this is part of the conversation we have to have with our potential customers and this is not just true for informational products but i like i used to do like a skincare line and like what like literally what is the cost of looking old i mean at that point you’re like hey we have to talk about that yeah it’s free right now it’s very free but for 79 i can make that go away so like all of a sudden you know and then well that sounds super spammy if you’ve never met me before and you don’t know my age and you don’t know my lifestyle and you don’t know that i actually live what i preach but then if you get to know me and you know you know you see me and you hear me and you know my story all of a sudden that’s not spammy you’re like heck i need some of that whatever that is you have i want some yeah one of the things that when you’re talking uh and our friend jay barry says this all the time he goes just because uh you have the recipe that doesn’t make you a chef going back to the time as you know you have all this stuff out there and it’s all out there if you went to holly’s podcast your books all that stuff you’d find it but who wants to sometimes we don’t have time to sort you know what do you have more of time or money and so it kind of goes down to that sometimes as well so it does or what do you have the potential of getting more yeah that’s so true all right i want to ask a personal question holly okay you have three and a half million people on your facebook page did you ever feel like giving up oh my gosh on a daily basis like a weekly basis and then like a quarterly crash basis and then and then and the thing is is so in general facebook is a math game i mean like any algorithm is a math game it’s all about like getting eyeballs numbers on to it and then numbers interacting with it because you can’t get people interacting with it if they don’t see it you know and so forth so we’re always looking at the numbers and so you know it was really fun to grow the page like that was really an exciting time because like you see progress and numbers are going up and then you know for the last couple years like we’ve been at you know between three and three and a half million followers um during that time over you know you know we haven’t been losing a lot but we haven’t been gaining a lot and the reach has been pulled back more and more and more just like everybody else is feeling and so it’s it can be discouraging to a level that i didn’t know was um out there all new levels of discouragement yeah i mean like when you post like i have a smaller page like i think my holly homer page has like 4 000 fans on it you know when you post something on that and like 120 people see it you’re like like woohoo when you post something on a three and a half million page and 120 people say it see it it’s not the same feeling right no no that’s a whole level of failure that you didn’t know was possible so so why do you keep doing it so um well first of all because i’m like the most persistent person you’ll ever meet in your life i think that’s important yes and and there is a there is a method to that madness um i always say like in the blogging world one of my successes is that i’m the last blogger standing like i’m still doing this 15 min 15 years later and the same thing’s gonna happen with facebook and with pinterest and with you know twitter and with all these algorithms which are very similar by the way but um is that who who is gonna succeed at this if it’s not me like i have thousands and thousands and thousands of hours of invested in this platform which is what the price of free is on facebook thank you jennifer for that and so like there is a point where okay i could get frustrated and i totally have like walked away and said this is not worth it this is absolutely not worth it but then i’m like okay is like is it worth it to see if it’s worth it and so that’s generally where i go to go like that’s where my brain goes because i use everything as a kind of a laboratory okay let’s do some tests to see if it’s worth it and then once you kind of flip that from being like mortally offended that facebook doesn’t love you anymore listen i i’ve been there to really like okay facebook like you’re smart i’m smart let’s see let’s see what we can do together and truthfully you know truth be told facebook needs me facebook needs you facebook needs quality content creators people who are going to keep the conversation uplifting and happy and not yell at people and not scream at people and not put people into crazy political spectrums not push them into cults i mean we they need us i’m a cult free political free person on the internet so you said you said on a show you are the equivalent of the internet toast that’s what you want yeah your toast i’m as controversial as toast on the internet so facebook needs me like and like and i am there to like we with we have a strategy on quirky mama on my facebook page that every like word the vacation from your problems because i’m like a really big fan of about what about bob on the movie and so like we’re vacation from your problems so everything we post is going to be happy and uplifting and something you could do something you can do even you can do and so facebook if when facebook actually pays attention to what we’re doing they really love it it’s just when like there’s an election or something going on we get drowned out and it can be really discouraging but last facebook user youtube last user facebook user standing someday there’s going to be a picture of me in an in an encyclopedia yeah she’s wait she’s like you know youtube gives out the the play buttons you’ll be like the holly homer award where you’ll get for being on facebook for like you know 100 years 40 years like we tried to stop her a million times and she just kept going that’s right energizer plenty of facebook right so i i kind of want to go back to the title of this episode which is i thought was a little bit gutsy right how to make facebook marketing work without paying for ads is that still possible yes in fact so what people don’t realize is there is still a massive amount of organic traffic to be had on facebook so and we all we all knew that years ago you know because you know we were getting it was easy you could post something and you would get traffic well i always have to knock on wood when i say things but well last month my blog got over a million page views from facebook so that was last month 2021 now wow we have had some months that weren’t nearly as generous from facebook very recently but last month was really probably one of our best months in about 10 months for from facebook and so it just goes to show that there there are cycles and if you’re just always doing what you think is best looking at the data you know making adjustments keep pushing what’s working even if it’s only working a little bit that at some point you know things start to pay off because you were one of the few people doing that you’re not catching lightning in a bottle you are just you’re slow and steady wins the race it’s not glamorous being the turtle but it’s it’s it’s a good it’s a good turtle life hello it’s me in the metaphors today i know so we got turtles we got you know chefs it’s just going crazy so one of so i know you’re a big like data nerd you do a lot of data stuff and you’ve always gone back to that so when we’re talking about growing organically what are some of the things that you see people doing wrong what is the biggest thing like stands out when people are trying to grow organically on facebook what are they doing wrong that you go oh i used to do that but now i do this yeah so the biggest problem is really that whole that whole definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting different results and that is never going to work in fact the algorithm is on to that the algorithm is going to be like oh off right so like you’re playing into the like the whole insanity thing and i see this so much where people like you know and people have been sold this bill of goods that these are complicated things like posting on facebook is very complicated and you need a thousand dollar course to learn how to do it and that you know that you need to post a certain number of times a day or a certain number of times a week and i have to be a certain percentage of engagement and not blah like no stop what you need to do is post something i don’t even care what it is go see if facebook liked it if facebook liked it go post that uh something similar to that and again didn’t like it try something else and that’s the path that is literally the path to success on not only facebook but any of these algorithms because they are written in a way that when you find the path to success you can repeat it it’s an algorithm it’s not a judge you’re not figurating here you know it’s it’s literally once the numbers align you just keep doing it and then if you want to do more of it you post more often if you want to do less of it you post less often the only caution i would say and you don’t have to pay me a thousand dollars although i would take your thousand dollars is that i would say a little bit consistent like one of the things most algorithms kind of hate is if you’re like i’m gonna post 47 times today and then go away on vacation for the next six months and then come back and do 47 more they’re more of a even keel kind of thing because it’s data driven so they want that data just coming in pretty consistently so that’s the only caution i would give but if you’re just starting out like what’s the big problem if you post seven times on one day just test things out and then post five things the next day test things out you know that kind of thing so erin brings up this great question she uh she goes how do you know if facebook liked it because i get some like sometimes i get 100 and sometimes i get five so how do you judge what works and i know you you have spreadsheets i know holly just like all this google’s like we’re not gonna let you add any more data to your account because you have too much so you can’t even find them anymore so i don’t even use them but how do you know and then how do you like track it i guess yeah so aaron that’s a really good question so if you’re talking about your personal profile there’s not a ton of data that facebook gives you so you’re going to have to kind of go gut off of a combination of likes and comments so just like if we were gonna and i’d i’m sure in the algorithm somewhere this is a thing but if we’re gonna rate things like and we give maybe like a thumb up like one point and a comment like five points and a share ten points that’s i want you to kind of think of it that way so if you have a post that maybe didn’t have a lot of comments but had a lot of shares that’s a really good thing so um that’s how you’re gonna tell on your personal profile and so what i do is like if i post something and i have a hundred comments on it i know it’s something that like the people that like me like to talk about so i might post something else similar to that in another week or two now on your page on your facebook page and your facebook group also has some of these same things is that at the bottom when you’re logged in at the bottom of each post it’s going to give you a reach number like how many people that that post reached in addition to the likes and the comments and i like that reach number now i just saw that facebook’s taking away analytics okay what is that i saw that peg fitzpatrick emailed me going what is it what’s going on i don’t know and the truth is i only use really one or two stats and it’s the reach number that i use and i will look at like the comments and the likes to kind of figure out that reach number when i was first getting started on all this but i really like that reach number because i feel like it has that the facebook math all done for you so it when you look and when you open up your facebook analytics that you’re going to have for a few more months um is that and who knows what it looks like next but um but anyway like there’s these orange bars um when you open up the insights that’s that you can see all your posts on top of each other and long orange bar is good and short orange bars bad it’s the amount of reach each of those posts got so just and this is not like oh my gosh this got seen by three more people than this got seen by like no like figure out kind of what’s your average did it do better than average did it do worse than average like i need this to be a split second not worry about like all you’re doing is testing so even if the next post goes out and it fails you just have more data um so like just taking these things one by one and um and just looking at kind of how the reach was you know if it was something that um because the reason why i like reach number is that there’s just some topics that people aren’t gonna discuss or there’s some things they’re not gonna share and like for instance i’m in the parenting space so on quirky mama we have one of our very very most popular posts is how to not yell at your kids great posts not something most people are sharing onto their facebook wall so true is really really quite large even though people are scared to comment on it they may not even like it they may not share it but they’re clicking through which is also an indicator to facebook that that is something that people are engaging with so that’s why i like that number and then you’ll see like like the question like what do you have you know where are you going on vacation this summer like you might have a ton of comments on that um but like but you’re in that number that reach number may not be really high because that’s all they did was they commented and didn’t come back to they didn’t answer anyone they didn’t like share it they didn’t you know what i mean like it wasn’t a deep conversation it was just something they quickly engaged with yeah i have a question to you because i’m wondering how much of that reach number do you think is solely dependent on that one post and how much of it is influenced by the success of previous posts so i think that’s a really good question i do not know the answer to that other than my gut tells me that there is a significant snowball effect and not just a significant snowball effect for you and your page but it’s actually i would think of it as multiple snowballs kind of rolling at the same time so there’s snowballs between you the page and that that that fan or that that follower so like if that follower interacts with your with your posts a lot that follower is going to be more likely to see it in their feed um and then the other thing i think is really strong is is topical so like let’s say um that you you follow my page and you have just a passion for paper plate crafts and so every time you see a paper plate craft on on facebook you interact with it um but you haven’t seen much from quirky mama in a while because we well we haven’t really done that many paper plate crafts this month which isn’t true we totally did but anyway i finally i finally published on facebook that paper platecraft and your facebook is actually going to be like oh elisa needs to see that so like that reach is going to be not just like kind of the authority of the page the engagement in that post but also is it topical in a way that your followers want to interact with it and want to see it [Music] on that same that same kind of topic um how important it is for growing organically because you mentioned the snowball effect is like getting on board with their new tools like for example what place does facebook stories have in this whole growing your organic kind of thing that we’ve been talking about so um if you’re not doing facebook stories you’ve got to do this like it is free traffic people like i feel like facebook stories was like the ugly step child that facebook put in there that and then they cut they like left it in like you know like 19 2015 algorithm and then the rest of facebook is in 2021 algorithm so like it’s also like combined with instagram which i find very confusing like is it an instagram story or is it a facebook story or is it both i don’t do both like i don’t do the crossover i do a story for facebook or a story for instagram i’ve just always been independent of those things because they’re different platforms like the person on instagram and the person on facebook they’re not the same person like your grandma’s on facebook my kids are on screen this is not even this like this is not even like within 50 years of each other so like i just don’t ever i never do the auto thing or the even the cross thing because i’m wanting to really tailor whatever i’m doing to that because i’m going to be going back and looking at the statistics and the analytics of that and it’s really muddies the water when you’re like oh well i just published this to 16 places but then there’s no way of saying well where did that traffic come from did it like am i messing up on one platform but doing well on another with that same content and that’s generally what i find is like it’ll do really well on facebook but suck on instagram and so then you’ve just taught instagram to ignore you and facebook’s engaged with you um that’s really good so stories we need to do them is what i’m hearing you to say yeah you really do and um the good news is is you don’t need to do a ton um but and um and they’re really easy to do and if you have like i think the swipe up is at less than ten thousand by the way i can’t i don’t i don’t know if anyone knows that but the swipe up on that is pretty effective um because so a lot of the facebook users are on their phone and i think you are attracting a different like i think you are getting a younger user in the facebook stories just because the older people don’t even know it’s there mom doesn’t know she doesn’t know what’s going on so my mother will never see my facebook stories so do you is it do you our facebook stories or kind of like like instagram are they organic do you not like i don’t need to make a production of a video it’s just me opening my phone go hey check out my blog or what what are you finding that works with uh facebook stories yeah in fact i use a lot of kind of a lot of my pen images and stuff um i just i think it’s very visual so like what i mean i don’t love to make a ton of stuff so like if i can repurpose like maybe a pen image into a facebook story or a lot of times i’m just sending like the and i do them on my phone so i just will you know you know take a picture off of the blog post or it doesn’t have to be fancy because and you really want to be able to add the words on top with the text that’s like with the terrible text edit tool that they have in that right right so it’s going to look like crap anyway so don’t spend a lot of time on it and then you’re just going to go back and look and they there’s there’s insights for stories just like there is for anything else um it’s in a little bit different place you have to click on the stories and it will pull the story insights up and then you’ll be able to see uh it’s a really easy way like i we had something that went completely viral via stories last it was mid-february last year and it was it was what we know about the corona virus like i could have predicted the pandemic based on the amount of interest that people had with that story um and so it’s really interesting i i do think you can find you can get your fingers on the pulse of what’s happening like kind of um site wide for facebook a lot of times that you can’t you like there’s there’s just less noise in stories so on that corona thing do you and and this is a mike alton term but do you like news jack do you like going like okay i know that the everyone’s talking about masks right now it’d be a great craft for me to how do i you know make a mask with my kid or something like that do you do stuff like that where you’re like very topical and thinking what’s in the news that comes up okay absolutely we create content every single day for social media um that is outside of our our um our kind of core content on kids activities blog so early pandemic and you have to be careful because like pandemic was a little bit different because it’s medical and so even though i have several doctors on staff believe it or not no kids activities block um we couldn’t we couldn’t pass the muster on like google being thinking that’s authority and stuff like that so you have to be careful but like one of my top actually pins was um my hand sanitizer homemade hand sanitizer recipe that we put out of course like the first weekend i had um a i i had a viral post on the weekend of the sh of the uh lockdown um which was a whole bunch of free educational resources um for kids and i think that thing i mean i it hit all the major news at networks it had over 2 000 incoming links from like serious like cnn and all this kind of stuff and it was because of the facebook post and um and so like that absolutely but beyond the news like because you’re like i’m kids activities like kids activities like that’s not like like what do we do like you know there’s only so many i don’t know like election crafts i mean we can’t just rely on the big stories and so what we try to do is find those like water cooler stories so like one um and those of you who i think i mentioned this at my um when i spoke at social media marketing world last time was one of the things that we figured out that was viral for us or and i would say viral it just the algorithm allowed the conversation further than we expected that’s what like sometimes you can find these topics that are topical like um that you know you’re just gonna get a bigger reach because it’s more people are interested in it was baby shark okay so all of a sudden we started creating also i like i have hundreds i have a category of baby shark content that is dominating google right now because we wrote so much baby shark stuff for facebook now facebook doesn’t love baby shark anymore but like you know but i now have all that content that google likes so but then think about other things like another one that’s big for us is we will write a lot about um what’s happening at costco like what’s like you know what kind of cool things you can buy at costco because we all love costco like my mom doesn’t want to go to costco and eat lunch over all the samples right so like just thinking about like what kind of quirky little things would catch your attention those nostalgic things those those like oh i can’t i can’t help but stop the scroll that’s the type of thing sometimes that um that it doesn’t have to be like and you’ll you’ll always see in fact i should look on kids activities blog just to give you some ideas well you will you’ll always see something that’s maybe just a little bit different um so like here’s one reebok is releasing jurassic park shoes yeah so like that’s something in our space that is interesting to people targets car seat trade-in event like that’s not like top news but it’s gonna get click-throughs from social media um those kind of things so what’s interesting now i know you have a whole team right because you mentioned you you don’t have some doctors on your team so you’re not not one or two people trying to do all of this on all the places so what can you recommend for somebody who is in that position um because if they do go over to quirky mama they’re gonna see that there are a lot of posts every day like do you have to post that much and how much are you posting because i couldn’t really count yes yeah um so first of all there was a time when i did a lot of this myself um so there but it was a it was a different time you know like um i wasn’t in my view of building your business you can really only build one thing at a time and so everything else is going to have to be pretty stable if you’re building something or you’re learning something new or you’re mastering something so like when we were growing facebook like the blog was kind of second fiddle to that we just kind of kept it going um and that kind of thing so and then once facebook’s kind of under control it’s a lot easier so i run everything with editorial calendars so like we know exactly like what’s going to be published on the front page of kids activities blog each day that triggers the the person that pins for me that triggers the person that posts the facebook and so and then this is just a helpful hint um for those of you who are like okay i’m ready to hire just maybe one person to help me out is i think it’s so much like if you’re just getting a little bit of help then i would give them kind of just one task that they can really make their own and make decisions within it so right now the person that runs my facebook page she knows more about what’s going on on it than i do and she is completely free to do whatever she wants to test so every once while i’ll go over to the page and i’ll be like what are we doing but i trust her and she like she’s found things that work that i wouldn’t have found you know what i mean so but if you’re just saying okay and the other mistake i’ve made in the past is i had that that person separated from that the analytics which i can’t believe i ever even thought that was gonna work but um so like i was like one person was making like pins and the other person was pinning them well no we need the person who’s pinning and making the pins to to follow the whole process including the analytics and the same thing happens on facebook and she’s also the person that’s in charge of writing the the social content for the blog because we’re writing that reebok post about the jurassic park shoes specifically for facebook so she needs to be able to see oh that really did that subject was good on facebook um that was a good post that was a good choice that you know and then and so on so that feedback loop needs to be in place and so if you’re gonna tackle your own facebook page i need you to get your business in a place where you can spend a little bit of time every day concentrating on facebook because if you’re just going to hop in and out and then not see how things did then you’re going to be practicing that insanity thing like you won’t know to make changes that’s a great point and by the way my jurassic park shoes are coming uh probably next week so nobody gets to see my feet anyway it’s just amazing they’re amazing i really did i was like really those are cool so we’ve got a bunch of comments and i want to make sure we get to uh questions alisa before and we have so many good ones and we um you know we i could talk with holly uh all day about this stuff because it’s just fascinating so you know she’s like not she’s not an evil genius she’s just playing genius on this stuff and it just makes me think people don’t let me talk like this in real life come back come back so uh rim asked this question she uh says is facebook hiding content from your own followers if you’re not using their boost this post feature i know a lot of people have that question no in fact um no it’s more it’s actually more insidious than that is they may just be hiding it because you’re not getting any interaction so the way i kind of think of it is um is like when you post something depending on the the size of your page and um facebook’s gonna send it out to a certain number of that maybe one percent maybe point five percent of those people and if nobody stops the scroll for it if nobody interacts with it and nobody likes it if nobody shares it it’s dead on arrival and then let’s say you’ve posted like that day after day after day well i think facebook’s like dudes we’ve been giving you the information nobody wants to see that and they’re just going to send it to less and less people so you have less and less chance of it of it being seen and so what you have to do is literally shake the dead um and that’s what we did when we started the quirky mama um growth is we had a page about 12 000 at that time which um was completely because of like giveaways and all those like incentives that we all those spammy incentives we used to be able to do on facebook those were so much fun they were so fun but then like the page was dead like it was yeah and i it was literally like i’m going to either i’m going to either annoy the people to unfollow me because that’s an action at least that’s like life or like you know like if they are dead then i want to make sure that like facebook knows they’re dead and so that they can like remove them from the platform and then there’s going to be a small amount of people who are like really into what we’re doing and that’s who i want to really talk to yeah you know i notice that you share like you have a ton of content of your own so you share a lot of that but i notice that you do share other people’s content and you’ll share like a meme or um like a quote graphic that doesn’t go anywhere do you have like a a super secret mix of what you do or no okay now there’s no 80 20 70 rule yeah i mean like so when we were building the page like um i just my philosophy was i want to be the source on facebook for everything a mom would want to know and it doesn’t matter if it’s me because like i like if i don’t have the best like lemon pie recipe which i promise you i don’t um then i want to go out because the thing is is those of us who live on the internet we know things like we know the best resources we know the best bloggers we know the best people in our space and so if we can connect those like followers to those sources so if i’m posting the best lemon pie recipe and i’m posting the best way to not yell at your children which happens to be mine and i’m and i’m posting you know all these things that a mom might be interested in but it’s the best and brightest on the internet that all can’t be mine and so at that time we were doing about 20 to 30 our own stuff and 60 to 70 percent other people’s stuff because the goal wasn’t just traffic but it was to grow a community around this conversation now that was several years ago so over those years we’ve filled in the gaps on some of these things i do have better family-friendly food today than i used to i do have more you know a lot of those content pieces that we had to go get somewhere else we now have not the same thing because we don’t do that but like you know similar things or things that fit that same category of conversation that we have that is now kids activities blog but i don’t think there’s any pr well i will say this i don’t think there’s any problem with posting other people’s stuff on your facebook page um i do think you have to be careful if you’re a large facebook page and you’re posting of other people who pay people and then facebook will just assume that you’re being paid too so that’s the only thing that i would but most of you you don’t have to worry about that like facebook doesn’t care like like if you post a wall street journal article today like they’re not they’re going to be like oh and if it but is it that if that’s the best article in in what you want to talk about you know start that conversation in the description start having like get people engaged in it you found the best thing that most probably 99 of your followers never would have found without you that’s a great point oh so now you have me a little scared though how would we know if we were sharing someone’s content who usually pays for that i would i would just i would say don’t worry about it i shouldn’t even say that because they’re not like they’re just trying to go out and find the bigger pages that are driving traffic for money which i used to do a lot of because it used to be legal and so there’s still people that are doing it um so don’t i like if you were posting the same three links from the same site every single day i think you’d have a problem gotcha no doubt so deborah asked this question she goes holly do you oh first of all i want to say heather had this she goes ha ha love like humor which that’s why we love holly um but do you have uh do you find it useful to invite readers who have uh liked your facebook post to like your page or does facebook see that as spammy because you know a lot of times they’ll even suggest like hey they like your content why don’t you ask them to like your page you know you’ll see that if you have a page is that a good idea or not what are your thoughts yeah i don’t have any problem with that in fact at the beginning um i think it’s a really good strategy and the the truth is is that’s the type of person you want to like your page like like somebody who’s who is already shown they’re engaged with your content they’re the most you know that’s the best bet for when you post something again that that person will want to see it so i think of all the tools that are out there as far as advertising and all that kind of stuff that’s one of the strongest ones because you’re not just you’re not like messaging your top 50 friends saying hey can you go like my page like because those 50 friends don’t have that in common likely but that person who liked that post may so that’s a much better so i like that tool a lot and i don’t know that i would just like use it for every single thing but if you’re building your page at the beginning you need bodies you need warm bodies there so like i don’t think it’s a problem um for you know especially for a while and then if you’re seeing growth that’s the other thing if you’re seeing growth and you continue to do it and you’re still seeing growth then i would keep doing it this is your page and it may be a different you know different than someone else’s experience with that same tool gotcha so are you you’re doing this with the tool invite someone to like this page that’s the mechanic yeah yeah yeah is it right below like you could open up everybody who interacted and then just like ask them to like the page very good that’s very smart especially if you’re doing live video yeah like in fact video is one of the strongest ways to do that because you like that’s those people they already like they hung out with you for a while and commented they already are on that relationship and you need to be able to reach back out and touch them to continue that like relationship otherwise you like just met in the grocery store and you don’t get to see each other again you know just look at what they got in their cart is saying in the comments it sounds very similar to what pinterest does or how you build an engaged audience on pinterest like you find the people who already like your email already like your blog you get them on pinterest and then it will help increase the distribution of your content there you’re saying the same thing about facebook which is it’s nice when your knowledge can transfer and i would say 80 to 90 of any algorithm you know about it’s gonna be the same on other things like literally we figured out the the conversation the topical thing on facebook um two summers ago because i had thrown myself into seo for the summer and so well and then continued but like that was because i was like i saw how those keywords were working in google in a way that that was really unusual in the discover platform and that kind of stuff and then realize oh facebook needs the same trending thing just like reddit does just like pinterest does these trending topics it’s not just those big news stories that you you that are the headlines it’s the also these water cooler you know smaller conversations that we can really get in on that trending for there’s less competition so on those uh same lines uh mary says this holly what do you think about posting memes on a page or should you stick a hundred percent to uh niche content so i like niche content but i am not a but like we talked about this as a math game so so let’s say for instance i know this is not personal or anything but you have like a really sucky facebook day like everything you post just like goes down in flames and you’re like okay like i think i’ve reached like one percent of my audience after 20 posts you know then i i pull out the crazy meme because like you just need numbers so yes i think those numbers are more important to your page if they’re within the niche but like it’s a numbers game to a certain extent if because the truth is if we don’t keep the numbers up with something then it’s then our regular content is going not going to be seen as by as many people so i try it’s a little bit like um a glass of wine is like one or two every once in a while is good maybe not six or seven or eight in an evening is good yeah a box of wine ain’t good so yeah it’s a little bit like a box of water that’s right yeah that’s just that’s too much consumption so the the question i have when you were talking about that so let’s say you throw out that meme do you say oh it didn’t do well and then try a different piece of content or do you actually go in and delete it is it bad for it to sit there if it’s not performing well i you know we i went around and around on this i did a lot of testing when we were building the page and this was of course a few years ago about deletion versus non-deletion and i don’t think it matters um i really don’t and i kind of like not deleting it because if you think about this math game being cumulative even if it only got a tiny tiny reach that’s better than zero because if you delete it it’s gonna it’s gonna be a zero so and this is where i kind of played the game is a little bit more than nothing yeah in my brain i don’t know i’m not a math wizard but yeah i don’t do math on live video either so uh here’s a i mean we’re running short on time and this is just we have so many great questions um and there was one i’m trying to find it that i thought it was a really good one i’m trying to find it oh this is great um so julia asked this question how do large companies maintain a personal small business feel on facebook because like you’re saying it’s social it’s you know the way you grow organically is giving people stuff that they can discuss and talk about and they share but how do you if you’re a company or you’re a brand let’s say you’re just like a local flower shop how do you do that without just advertising your boat you know what bouquets you have on sale and it’s you know valentine’s day and all that kind of stuff how do you maintain that feel and to a certain extent um that like you’re gonna have a little bit of that with like a flower shop but you’re not in like you’re not talking people into buying flowers with a flower shop you’re like hey if you need flowers here’s what i have so it’s a little bit different conversation um but i will say so one of the reasons why story selling and like putting a face in front of a brand is so popular because it’s so much easier to create content if it’s like this is what holly thought today um you know because like that could be anything literally anything but then so it’s one of the kind of the edges we have over these big companies is because like chase bank can’t get the engagement that quirky mama can because like what are they gonna talk about like and it has to go through their legal team and what a nightmare so but i do think like what you want to find is like let’s say you do have that flower shop i would just explore all the conversations around flowers and you know here’s flower coloring pages you know of course i’m kids activities so i think that way but like here’s all the things like here’s or does anyone know the name of this flower i googled the other day what is the name of this flower and i couldn’t find like i mean can you imagine the engagement if like every week you put up like this what’s the name of this flower like most of us have no idea so like that conversation that is like think of how you can connect with people in a way that like is just is social i know i said social but is you know it’s like oh like that’s a funny conversation that’s like like something that you would say to a friend like oh my gosh i’ve got these in my front yard for two years and i have no idea what what they’re called and i’m going to the nursery and i don’t know what to buy like what do i ask for the pink flowers with the green stamp like you know i mean like this is a funny conversation that we would have as friends mm-hmm well this where this is so um fascinating this is so good i know that we’ve got a lot of questions sorry we couldn’t get to all of them today um but uh you make make sure you guys go to holly’s website kidsactivitiesblog.com check it out if you’re watching on amazon or you go back over onto the amazon channel later all her books she’s what four four five books yeah in fact my fourth one is coming out in may and on the front page of kids activities blog is a we’re doing a big bonus if you pre-order it it’s 500 kids activities so if you have kids this is a whole year’s worth of activities easily and if you don’t have kids it makes an amazing gift for people who do have kids take it from us who have kids awesome well all you guys thank you guys so much for watching you know this is kind of where elise and i were like should we do these things it’s not really pinterest but everybody is saying you know like deborah’s going i love this uh thank you for doing it they love this conversation so thank you trona you’re always here every every week we appreciate you especially for stopping by um this is going to be fun this is going to be a great thing where we can kind of expand on what we’re doing hope educated you because like holly was saying a lot of these algorithms work the same some of the things that you learn from one platform you can use some strategies over there and and i think it just makes you a better uh marketer and business person uh the more you learn about this stuff so thank you guys so much for watching by the way we want to make sure that you guys don’t forget that we have these new mark what’s it what month is it now april april it’s april uh templates we have that tailwind is put together and they’re also built right into tail and create where you can make them all inside of there and and they’re just amazing so make sure you guys check those out it’s bit.ly forward slash tw pinterest toolkit that’s all lowercase all smashed together bit.ly forward slash tw pinterest toolkit go check out those new templates at least as always i’ll let you have the last word uh yeah so if you liked this episode and i’m seeing that you are um let us know i think we need to have holly back because we only got through half scratch half the question so if you’ll come back and geek out with us again uh that would be wonderful yeah so thank you again um the one one thing i picked out of your suggestions for for facebook stories was to use your pins so that is a really great way to repurpose content easily and if you go into tailwind create you can make one in less than two minutes get it out there and and try it i i’m gonna try that yeah yeah we’re gonna try that thank you awesome thanks everybody we’ll see you next week bye everybody bye